Posts by Disillusioned JW

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

Disillusioned JW

Yes BoogerMan, atheists (at least some) and theists (at least most Christian theists) do agree that something (someone in the case of theists) has always existed and that it (someone in the case of theists) is eternal. But I don't consider my view to be a faith. For me it is simply the result of simple deductive reasoning upon two well established facts of science. Note the following.

Premise number 1: Energy-matter exists.

Premise number 2: The well established Law of Conservation of Energy-Matter says that Energy-Matter can neither be created nor destroyed (though it can be transformed).

Conclusion: Since energy-matter exists and since it can not be created, energy-matter therefore must have always existed and has never come into existence.

However, it should be noted that some astrophysicists have said the net energy of the entire universe is ZERO (when considering gravitational potential energy as negative energy) and that thus the entire universe could have come from NOTHING.

62

NASA: Humans Back to the Moon

by Gerard in

nasa plans return to moon by 2020

"this vision aims to return humans to the moon, and then to use it as a staging point for a manned mission to mars.

i wonder if jws will be required to canvas those areas too.

Disillusioned JW

https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/10/28/teams-on-track-for-artemis-i-rollout-to-launch-pad/ reports the following.

"Teams are on track to roll the Space Launch System rocket and Orion spacecraft from the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) to Launch Pad 39B no earlier than Friday, Nov. 4 with first motion targeted for 12:01 a.m. EDT.

... The agency continues to target a launch date no earlier than Nov. 14 at 12:07 a.m. EDT."

23

Is There Life On Mars?

by LoveUniHateExams in

no, i'm not talking about the david bowie song, i'm asking does life exist on mars?.

opportunity rover (the one before the present one) took photos of strange, puffball-like sphericals seemingly sprouting on the martian surface.. these photos aren't conclusive evidence but it is an exciting area to investigate.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9546225/scientists-claim-evidence-fungi-red-planet.html .

Disillusioned JW

NASA News: "NASA and ESA Agree on Next Steps to Return Mars Samples to Earth". The article is located at https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasa-and-esa-agree-on-next-steps-to-return-mars-samples-to-earth . The article says in part the following.

'The next step in the unprecedented campaign to return scientifically selected samples from Mars was made on Oct. 19 with a formal agreement between NASA and its partner ESA (European Space Agency). The two agencies will proceed with the creation of a sample tube depot on Mars. The sample depot, or cache, will be at “Three Forks,” an area located near the base of an ancient river delta in Jezero Crater.

... This strategic NASA and ESA partnership would be the first mission to return samples from another planet and the first launch from the surface of another planet. The samples collected by Perseverance during its exploration of an ancient river delta are thought to present the best opportunity to reveal the early evolution of Mars, including the potential for life. By better understanding the history of Mars, we would improve our understanding of all rocky planets in the solar system, including Earth.'

23

Is There Life On Mars?

by LoveUniHateExams in

no, i'm not talking about the david bowie song, i'm asking does life exist on mars?.

opportunity rover (the one before the present one) took photos of strange, puffball-like sphericals seemingly sprouting on the martian surface.. these photos aren't conclusive evidence but it is an exciting area to investigate.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9546225/scientists-claim-evidence-fungi-red-planet.html .

Disillusioned JW

Science news article: "Bacteria could survive underground on Mars for hundreds of millions of years, new study finds". The article is located at https://www.livescience.com/mars-microorganisms . It says in part the following.

'New research suggests that signs of ancient Martian life could be out there – or rather, hidden just beneath the Martian surface, safe from harmful radiation.

... As Elton John once sang, "Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids; in fact, it's cold as hell." But new research suggests that Martian chill could allow bacteria to survive for up to 280 million years below the planet's surface.

The finding raises hopes that traces of ancient life — or even viable organisms in suspended animation — could be found on the Red Planet someday.

In the study, scientists found that an Earth bacterium, Deinococcus radiodurans, is so resistant to radiation that it can handle the equivalent of 280 million years of the radiation present 33 feet (10 meters) below the Martian surface. The plucky little microorganism, which has been found thriving in nuclear reactors on Earth, could even last 1.5 million years on the Martian surface, which is constantly bombarded with cosmic and solar radiation.

The key to this survival is Mars' dry, cold environment. When desiccated and frozen to minus 110.2 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 79 degrees Celsius) — the temperature of dry ice and the higher-latitude regions of Mars — D. radiodurans "become phenomenally, astronomically radiation-resistant," said study senior author Michael Daly, a geneticist and radiation biology expert at Uniformed Services University in Maryland.'

See also the article called "Caves of Mars Project" located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caves_of_Mars_Project and see the article called "Martian cave entrances may offer a life-friendly radiation shield" located at https://www.newscientist.com/article/2288037-martian-cave-entrances-may-offer-a-life-friendly-radiation-shield/ . The latter article says in part the following.

"However, images of the planet from orbit have shown what appear to be entrances to caves, and the insides of these caverns could be protected from those harmful rays.

... The consequences of this are twofold: caves may be safe locations for human explorers to hide from the extreme conditions at the Martian surface, and they may also be some of the best places to search for signs of life on the Red Planet. No lander or rover has ever visited a cave on Mars, but doing so would be the best way to figure out whether they really are habitable, says Viúdez-Moreiras."

These reports are great news folks, and they give great support to my idea which I posted a year ago on this topic thread!

36

“Hanging the earth upon nothing”

by FFGhost in

for those of you not up to speed on the latest jw trends, one of the key scriptures the jws are using in field serve-us lately is job 26:7, wherein the writer describes the earth as “hanging upon nothing”.. this text is used to indicate the bible’s “reliability”.

the reasoning goes something like this:.

“see, centuries ago, people thought the world was flat, or was resting on elephants or turtles, or some such nonsense.

Disillusioned JW

1 Samuel 2:8 and Job 38:4, 6 are some more verses about the foundations and/or pillars of the Earth. https://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_pillarsearth.htm says the following. 'In Ugaritic we have seen that there are two mountains, trgzz and trmg that bind the earth. Gibson says that these twin mountains were founded in the earth-encircling ocean, and held up the firmament, and also marked the entrance to the underworld (1978, 66). The mountains are said to bind the earth. This may indicate that the mountains surrounded, and supported the earth as well as confine the netherworld. The mountains were seen as the foundations of the earth, and the support pillars for the heavens. The Hebrews probably held a very similar view as the verses above indicate, as well as later Hebrew writings. So the phrase "pillars of heaven" and "pillars of earth" are referring to the same mountains. One emphasizes the height of the mountains holding up heaven, the other emphasizes the depth of the mountains that hold the earth firm.'

Job 38:17 (1898 ARV; 1901 ASV) says "gates of death" and "gates of the shadow of death"

Job 38:22 (1898 ARV; 1901 ASV) says "treasuries of the snow" and "treasuries of hail"

36

“Hanging the earth upon nothing”

by FFGhost in

for those of you not up to speed on the latest jw trends, one of the key scriptures the jws are using in field serve-us lately is job 26:7, wherein the writer describes the earth as “hanging upon nothing”.. this text is used to indicate the bible’s “reliability”.

the reasoning goes something like this:.

“see, centuries ago, people thought the world was flat, or was resting on elephants or turtles, or some such nonsense.

Disillusioned JW

Thank you FFGhost for the list you provided of verses where the Bible's description of the Earth conflicts with scientific accuracy. However, the TNIV Bible (and most likely the latest NIV translation of Bible) does put most of those verses in poetic format, thus I do think most of the verses are poetic. However, despite the poetic nature of most of the verses you are correct in saying the cited Bible verses are expressing ideas of the Earth which disagree with scientific truth.

Readers: Note that some of the cited verses are explicitly stating that Yahweh God (Jehovah God, the LORD God) himself stated what is said in the verses. Those particular verses are not merely saying it is the idea of a human character in the biblical books or the idea of the human writer of the biblical books, but rather the actual statement of the biblical god himself. That is important to keep in mind as you evaluate the degree of accuracy of what the Bible teaches regarding the structure of the Earth, and thus also regarding even the claim of the existence of Yahweh God.

truth_b_known you are correct in what you said about the ancient Jewish cosmology. What the illustration provided by you says of the ancient Jewish idea about the structure of the Earth (including of Sheol) and the visible heavens (sky), and the location of alleged divine beings (whether those the Jews believed or whether those the pagan neighbors of the Jews believed) was also the idea of ancient non-Jewish peoples of Mesopotamia. That is mentioned in various scholarly publications, including in the 1991 edition of the NAB Bible (a Catholic Bible). The "Saint Joseph Edition", "Illustrated", of that Bible edition, in between the page numbered 4 and the page numbered 5 of the OT section, has a page with an illustration and a description of the illustration. The title of the illustration and its description is called "The World Of The Hebrews". The last sentence of that description says the following. "This was the same prescientific concept of the universe as that held by the Hebrews' pagan neighbors." That Bible edition is where I first learned that concept. That concept was a shock to me, since I was still a Bible believer at the time.

Because of the above, the verses cited by FFGhost, including the verses which are poetic, are literally stating what the Jewish biblical writers of those verses believed to be part of the structure of the Earth. For example, where they say the the Earth has a foundation and pillars they mean the Earth literally has both a physical foundation and physical pillars!

Diogenesister you are very correct in all of what you said about the Ancient Hebrew word (at Job 26:7) meaning "circle" and of the Hebrew word which means "sphere" or 'ball', and that if the writer of Job 26:7 had sphere/ball in mind he could have easily used the Hebrew word which had that meaning.

Readers: If the writer of Job 26:7 had the specific meaning of sphere/ball he should have used at Job 26:7 the specific Hebrew word which has that meaning, yet he didn't use that word at Job 26:7.

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

Disillusioned JW

BoogerMan, Energy-matter never came into existence, but rather has always existed. It can be transformed (for example some energy can be transformed into matter, and vice versa), for scientists have seen it take place and have done it (such as in nuclear fusion and nuclear fission reaction experiments). Energy-matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Even the big bang did not create/make energy matter. It did transform much energy into matter, but the sum total of energy-matter did not change. Thus as far we can tell from our study of physics, energy-matter is eternal. In that since energy-matter has one of the characteristics which the alleged creator/designer god has, namely no beginning and no end, namely eternal existence. Energy-matter is frequently detected by humans but no God has ever been detected by humans. It thus does not require faith to be convinced in the existence of energy-matter in place of being convinced of the existence of God.

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

Disillusioned JW

Correction/clarification: In my prior post where I said 'If he as Sea Breeze claims, hypothetically speaking, that Jesus Christ's fleshly human body was resurrected and ascended to heaven ..." I should have said "If Jesus Christ, as Sea Breeze claims, hypothetically speaking, has a fleshly human body which was resurrected and ascended to heaven ...".

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

Disillusioned JW

Hi Sea Breeze. Within two days I plan to make a post commenting on what you said about why orthodox Jews put faith in Jesus (a cursed man) and regarding your comment about the significance of the claim that Jesus was resurrected and walked out of the tomb.

36

The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?

by smiddy3 in

the common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.

however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.

coming into existence without a designer ?.

Disillusioned JW

hooberus, would Jesus Christ, if he actually existed (hypothetically speaking) as both a human and as the son of God the Father meet your criteria of functional complexity? If he as Sea Breeze claims, hypothetically speaking, that Jesus Christ's fleshly human body was resurrected and ascended to heaven, and if Jesus is also God and a spirit being and part of a trinity, and if Jesus Christ also created/made and designed everything (and everyone) other than Jesus, Yahweh God the Father, and the holy spirit, would Jesus then be a designer who is more complex (according to the sense you use the word in this topic thread) than all humans (other than Jesus) who have ever existed? Furthermore, would the Trinity, if it actually exists, be a designer god who is even more complex than Jesus since it consists of both Jesus the Son, God the Father, and the holy spirit as one god instead of as three gods?

Keep in mind that parts of the Bible describe Yahweh God in very anthropomorphic terms. For example it says that he sees and hears (not just mind reads), planted a garden in Eden, fashioned/built/made a man out of dirt, built a woman from a rib bone, shut the door of the Ark, opened windows (or floodgates) in the heavens (or the sky or the expanse) and sent a downpour of water through them, smelt the aroma of a sacrifice made by Noah after the flood, cast down fire from heaven, is (or is like a) potter, has emotions and thoughts, is a manly warrior, and is king and our father. Many Christians (including the writers of the WT literature) believe he has a spiritual/spirit body. The book of Revelation describes John seeing him (and Jesus) in a vision sitting on a throne, and Acts describes Stephen seeing both God the father and Jesus also. Do such descriptions in the Bible and ideas of many Christians about Yahweh having an actual body of some sort indicate the biblical concept of Yahweh (at least as understood by many Christians) includes the idea that Yahweh has a human-like composition as part of his composition, including sensory organs/sensors?

Regarding a deistic type of god is the idea of it/he/she/them as a creator/designer essentially a meaningless concept since its composition is not defined at all and since no human has ever seen, heard, felt (such as by tactile means), smelled, tasted, or by any other sensory means detected such a being?